In addition, Eugene had finished some papers ahead of time (for the first time in his life) and he didn’t have to stay up all night cramming for his finals. The dosages of medication required to obtain these results caused intolerable side effects in many of the patients. “The effects are great during the week, but I have to relax and catch up on my sleep on weekends,” says my patient Eugene. It rapidly crosses the blood-brain barrier and goes inside the presynaptic terminal of monoamine neurons.. Once inside, Adderall interacts with trace amine-associated transporter 1 (TAAR1) and vesicular monoamine transporters 2 (VMAT2) which … DMAE (Dimethylaminoethanol, Deanol, Deaner) has two methyl groups and is structurally similar to choline, which is a direct precursor to acetylcholine (ACh). I learned about it from my patients, who noticed that it did a very effective job of helping them manage symptoms. Targeting EXACTLY the Adderall state, will likely bring on the side effects Adderall brings on, or ones similar. Citicoline is a prescription medication in some countries. I use "jarrow's formula cdp-choline" I bought from amazon and I have been very happy with it. Her ADHD-RS score was 10, and her SSR 80 percent. Adderall is an amphetamine.It’s a combo of 25% levoamphetamine salts and 75% dextroamphetamine salts.. I did this over the summer, because he was worried that his grades would fall on the new treatment plan. ), When I saw Eugene at his next six-month visit, his rating scale symptom score had dropped to 12 (SSR 74), and his GPA for the fall semester went up to 3.2. This could literally mean anything, both good and bad. Not everyone improves as much as Heidi and Eugene. The CDP-Choline supplement is unique as a choline source. Early reports seemed to promise positive and consistent effects, without the medication wearing off at 5 p.m., sleep problems, growth or appetite suppression, and monthly calls for a new prescription. In general, Adderall … (Citicoline + Adderall during school) (Piracetam + L-Theanine this summer) - posted in Brain Health: I am a 22-year-old nursing student. Discussion of nootropics and cognitive enhancers. Though this is a prescription and therefore should not be used at all like a regular nootropic aid. It’s just a trial to see if better is possible. I use atomoxetine, but other practitioners add guanfacine, bupropion, and antidepressants to a stimulant, all of which can be effective. Hope it's interesting.. lol. Citicoline is a safe way to increase dopamine naturally. I have never smoked, drank alcohol, nor abused any legal (or illegal) substance. In my practice, we couldn’t wait to try it. It was named atomoxetine (Strattera), and it promised to be the best medication ever. How Adderall Works in your Brain. Stimulant effects declined much more gradually, and she couldn’t pinpoint when they wore off. However I won't be buying these again unless real cheap. We asked 35 parents to do a cross-titration study. Citicoline vs Adderall. “Some days, I just don’t want medicine that makes me feel like getting something done every minute.”, Eugene is a 20-year-old college student who has gotten decent grades since starting treatment during his freshman year. Just thought I'd share this information with those of you who don't have a regimen that's working for you. 2013 This is its primary mode of action when it comes to improving cognition. Dr. Wilens was using high doses of both medications in his study, but my combination patients were on much lower dosages, and we were not seeing an increase in side effects. We love it in part for its reliability, and in part for its potency. Copyright © 1998 - 2020 New Hope Media LLC. Once it’s digested it separates into cytidine and choline. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. what about side effects? How To Use Citicoline For Opiate Withdrawal. It works in two ways — by raising the level of dopamine and by increasing the number of dopamine receptors in the brain. He speaks on ADHD to professional and lay audiences, is a consultant on medication safety, and a researcher. Capsules per day: 1 – 4. Furthermore; it heightens focus, increases mental energy, and provides thought clarity. The term refers to using a stimulant and a non-stimulant to reduce ADHD symptoms. I changed his treatment plan by adding 40 mg of atomoxetine and decreasing Adderall to 30 mg. This naturally occurring choline source is present in every cell in your body. These 3 gave me a noticeable mental clarity and focus. They were using high-dose combination therapy with atomoxetine (Strattera) and OROS-methylphenidate (Concerta). There are many different forms of of "choline" but make sure you use the "cdp-choline" which is also called "citicoline". In 2003, a very different ADHD medication, called a non-stimulant, was released. He was taking 40 mg of Adderall XR, and it helped him focus in class. Citicoline and Adderall. Some prescribers may not be aware of combination therapy, and others may be uncomfortable about it, as I was initially. While... Why do so many people with ADHD struggle to find relief from their symptoms? Are ADHD Medications Safe to Take While Pregnant or Breastfeeding? Citicoline and Adderall + Nootropic Adderall-Like Stack. I take 5000 mg b12 with the SAMe, tyrosine, and citicoline, wait 30 min then take the adderall All this around 7am At night Magnesium, 5htp, and source naturals “theanine serene” and high doses of vit c to cut any effects of adderall so I can sleep and avoid a crash. “These [non-stimulants] work around the clock and can counteract some of the side effects of the stimulants. This was done in recognition of the fact that atomoxetine effects need time to accrue. I decreased Concerta to 27 mg/day and increased atomoxetine to 60 mg/day. “The important thing to keep in mind if you’re combining agents”, Rostain says, “is to be sure that the patient understands how to use each one, how to dose each one. In the past, when a stimulant medication gave only partial benefit at standard, FDA-approved dosages, it was common to continue titrating to higher dosage ranges. A trial of combination therapy is not a decision to treat. But what if you could recreate the effects of Adderall with a stack of three nootropics? This is a much more advanced and beneficial form of CDP Choline. Adderall, like the Limitless pill ... Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse, etc., and the Dr. Giurgean neuroprotective nootropics, e.g., citicoline, piracetam, L-theanine, etc., and ... After reading on another site – addysafe.org and reddit and elsewhere about NAC, I started trying it before and during to combat any neurotoxic effects of addy. Most decreased their stimulant dosages substantially. Dose has been 80mg about 2.5 months now and memory is incredibly improved. I tried Citicoline with the other nootropics, after first using the nootropics without Citicoline. Citicoline Guide: Is this the ultimate focus-booster? Please enable JavaScript and refresh the page in order to complete this form. Maybe about 45mins peaking at the 25 minute mark. After years of experience with combination therapy, I rarely use these dosages. Your brain uses a lot of energy … In contrast, most patients on combination therapy take low- to moderate stimulant dosages, and report duration of benefits of more than 12 hours. ADHD combination therapy, using a stimulant and a non-stimulant to reduce symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, can improve behaviors with fewer side effects. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. These all had a similar effect and stacking them all together had the same effect but stronger. 29 votes, 20 comments. There is a ton of research done on this supplement and I highly recommend it to Adderall users. As a medicine, it is taken by mouth as a supplement or given as an injection into the vein (by IV) or as a shot into the muscle. The use of Adderall, a drug often prescribed by doctors to treat patients with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), or other substances that … Our mission is to be your trusted advisor, an unwavering source of understanding and guidance along the path to wellness. Coaching had improved his study habits, but procrastination and end-of-semester cram-fests were still there. CDP-Choline (Citicoline) CDP-Choline (Cytidine Diphosphate Choline or cytidine 5′-diphosphocholine) is also known as Citicoline. As you can see, the stack is made of three nootropics which help you boost your cognitive performance. I think I'm going to reincorporate the citicoline once every 3 days, or try to split my 250mg dose in half and take it daily or every other day. His typical day started at 10 a.m. and ended at three or four the next morning. “I don’t know which medication is right for you,” I say, “but I know how to help you find the right one(s).”. There were no lectures in medical school on this therapy and no studies of it yet, in 2000, when I started my ADHD practice. I am a medical student studying to be a neurologist. I DEFINITELY felt even better effects from all the nootropics when I stacked them with Citicoline, and I highly recommend that you try this out as well. I've found the combo of 1 gram Piracetam to 500 mg Citicoline to be quite interesting. They said the company collects records of people's experiences with the drug and may be able to share it with me for research purposes (I'm a medical professional). Adderall and Ritalin are brand-name drugs that are also available as generic drugs. It pretty much feels like a stronger version of modafinil. This stack rapidly increases mental energy, cognitive performance, and stress resistance. It supposedly increases DA and NE levels in the brain, which is great, but it also increases several HPA hormones as well. Press J to jump to the feed. At Heidi’s next six-month visit, she reported that her symptom reduction was very good in the evening. Think adrenaline rushes and how you have really good memory of them(makes sense to vividly remember these times for survival in the future evolutionally). We talked about further reducing her stimulant dose. And it is the relationship ACh has with DMAE that generates most of the hype around DMAE as a nootropic.. Seems to be the case for me, i skipped the citicoline in my stack this morning (and got tons of sleep last night) and im already feeling better. ACh is one of the most abundant and important neurotransmitters in the brain. She felt less anxious. In addition, trials to select and fine-tune the second medication can be challenging for providers. Elias Sarkis, M.D., and I published data from our practices in a 2015 study, which showed what most subsequent studies have shown — side effect rates were the same for combination therapy and monotherapy. She had nothing left for her children. Family life was better, without the meltdowns that many families accept as “normal” as stimulants wear off. I've used ritalin and adderall in the past to help with adhd, but recently was switched to strattera. In 2006 I talked with Timothy Wilens, M.D., who was doing a study of combination therapy at Harvard’s neuro-psychopharmacology study center. In particular, citicoline may … It is important to do a trial if you think it may help. He disliked “the feeling of being medicated.”. "Atomoxetine acts as an NMDA receptor blocker in clinically relevant concentrations", http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874851/. I have been suffering from bad brain fog the last few weeks. Make sure they understand the inherent challenges they’re going to face, and to make sure you’re paying attention to the side effects that might emerge from the combination of stimulant and nonstimulant.”, [Your Free Download Here: 9 Rules for Using ADHD Medications Safely and Effectively]. Get a free issue and free ADDitude eBook, plus save 42% off the cover price. Most adult patients in my practice who take extended-release stimulants need average to high dosages to achieve optimal symptom reduction. So really what you are asking is "do nootropics work well with nootropics?" On paper, that is. At his one-month visit, his rating scale symptom score dropped to 15, and his symptom score reduction shot up to 67 percent. Citicoline is a brain chemical that occurs naturally in the body. [Get This Free Download: The Ultimate Guide to ADHD Medication]. I believe that, along with /NoFap and /Pornfree, supplementing my brain with Citicoline (aka CDP … There have been no adrenaline rushes but I think you're talking more about epinephrine anyways. Her supervisor had noted several improvements on her latest performance review at work. Just gonna spit out some of the random things I can remember now. If this stack is augmented with Theanine and a B vitamins complex, … Learn more about Bacopa uses, effectiveness, possible side effects, interactions, dosage, user ratings and products that contain Bacopa Dr. Anthony Rostain, Professor of Psychiatry and Pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania, and co director of the Penn Adult ADHD Treatment and Research program, for instance, says he often uses alpha- agonists, like guanfacine or clonidine, to treat children and adults. Citicoline Benefits. Memantine produced so-so effects on my memory but this seems to hit it just right. The benefits of citicoline could possibly be tied with memory and brain functions. You HAVE to target both: the dopaminergic system, AND bring in a nervous system stimulant at the same time. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I contacted Eli Lilly's research division two weeks ago about the appetite suppressant effects of atomoxetine. So we changed her treatment plan: I decreased MPH-ER Concerta to 54 mg/day and added atomoxetine (Strattera) 40 mg/day. Adderall itself is a nootropic. They typically report eight to 10 hours of medication benefit, and most require short-acting supplements to treat their evening symptoms. According to our research, the closet legal thing to Adderall is a combination of Citicoline, Tyrosine, and Caffeine. All rights reserved. Side effects were fewer than those for patients who were taking only stimulants. Her organization and attention improved, but she still experienced impairing symptoms during the workday — difficulty completing work and poor frustration management. The amphetamine effects can stimulate the mind and make it easier to remain productive and focused. “I feel like myself now, not like the medication is driving me.”. Great that this is still available without Rx here in the US. A citicoline dosage is well regarded as being safe and extremely effective and can be quite powerful when combined with other supplements. Oh man straterra has some wierd sexual side effects. Generic forms tend to cost less than the brand-name versions. We guessed that half of our patient families would prefer the new medication, but, once again, patients taught us something that the research had failed to predict. Long-term damage from meth abuse can include an increased risk for Parkinson’s disease (a movement disorder), trouble with verbal learning, memory issues, and other cognitive deficits. Citicoline, B12, & Omega 3. The results were mind-boggling. Could I have done damage? If a stimulant does not address symptoms at standard dosages, it usually makes more sense to treat remaining symptoms with a second medication. I treated her with 72 mg/day MPH-ER (Concerta). HupA, Huperzina A, Huperzine, Huperzine-A, Selagine, Sélagine. When people ask me about the latest, greatest ADHD medication, my answer often disappoints them. ADD Symptoms in Adults]. The medication’s effects wore off by 6 p.m. At home, family life was difficult, and she was dissatisfied with her parenting. Together, they work to stimulate and normalize certain chemicals in our brains. CDP Choline (also known as Citicoline or Cytidine diphosphocholine) is a potent nootropic and a highly bioavailable choline source that is praised for its ability to cross the blood-brain barrier quickly, improving memory and protecting the brain against memory injury. Citicoline also seems to quiet the world around me, more so than Adderall. The phenylpiracetam, adrafinil, and citicoline stack is one of the most basic nootropic stacks similar to Adderall. Patients who completed the study had remission-level responses— (SSRs) of more than 90 percent. His typical day started at 10 a.m. and ended at three or four the next morning. Oren Mason, M.D., is a physician at Attention MD in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He needed a 10 mg “booster dose” of amphetamine in the evening to help him do homework. I no longer take the Adderall. Waking up was less torturous and the process of getting ready for school was smoother. She had much better symptom control in the evening during family time. Research has suggested that conditions that benefit from adderall could be linked to some form of brain damage or motor function disorder. Here, an ADHD physician explains the science and method behind treating patients with combination therapy. I incidentally remember minutia and can purposefully recall after one pass: expiration date on all the dairy in the fridge, gates, terminals, airplane seats of a trip two weeks ago, entire grocery list for two people/wk of food, exact menu items and prices of food ordered at a restaurant three weeks ago. However this effect was very short lived. Waking up feeling like I got hit by a truck, just a clouded mind … Adderall can be a useful prescription for people with either ADHD or narcolepsy. My grandma has Alzheimers disease and I became deeply interested in the nootropic community as a result of stumbling across research … In this video, we’ll lay out a few of my favorite stacks to reach the Adderall … Tags: Fall 2019 Issue of ADDitude Magazine, medication, stimulants, treating adults, treating kids. [Take This Test: Do I Have ADHD? did you experience any? 23 Tayebati SK, Amenta F. Choline-containing phospholipids: relevance to brain functional pathways, Clin Chem Lab Med. Citicoline functions as a precursor of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine (ACh). A number of companies now market nootropic “stacks,” or formulas, some of which include piracetam, herbal remedies, amino acids and citicoline, a … ACh is a critical neurotransmitter that influences everything from memory to muscle control. Since 1998, millions of parents and adults have trusted ADDitude's expert guidance and support for living better with ADHD and its related mental health conditions. did piracetam or Huperzine A produce similar results? Combination therapy is often more expensive than using one medication, although stimulant dose reduction sometimes balances the cost of taking the second medication. Can you elaborate? Also I think I've read Norepinephrine increase might lead to recording more vivid memories because of it makes the brain think that the situation is a more "important" of a memory. Likewise, Mind Lab Pro contains Citicoline in the form of Cognizine. Huperzine A increases levels of a chemical called acetylcholine. Strattera is one of the underrated stimulants mainly because of price which should change in about 2 years when the patent expires. Her ADHD-RS (rating scale) symptom score was 32, and her symptom score reduction (SSR) was 25 percent. A question frequently arises of whether there is a nootropic that compares to Adderall. Citicoline is one of our favorite brain boosting supplements. They’re also very good for other symptoms like anxiety or reactivity.”. Thirty-five children took half their stimulant dosage plus half the atomoxetine target dosage for two weeks, then they switched to taking only atomoxetine. This is a common issue in dose-optimization studies, because participants are asked to tolerate side effects in order to measure the best improvement technically possible. The Buzz on Otc Adderall Reddit Stacks like Mind Lab Pro deal complete cognitive assistance in a safe, natural method. With ADHD treatment, his rating scale symptom score improved from 46 to 20, and his GPA improved from 1.5, in his first semester, to 2.8 in his sophomore year. Dr. Wilens’s patients weren’t just a bit better; their ADHD symptoms were gone and their attention was normal. Side effects are the most common reason people with ADHD skip or stop their stimulant medication. It appears JavaScript is disabled in your browser. In the United States, it’s sold as a supplement. These chemicals help give us a sense of alertness, concentration, focus, and an overall good mood. It is commonly thought that citicoline is the answer; however, the one that comes the closest to Adderall is phenylpiracetam. Many users report negative experiences mixing Adderall with this nootropic when it comes to depression and mood. He didn’t feel the need to skip his medication on weekends, and took it every day, “unless I slept in too much.”, I switched Eugene to 50 mg of lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) and continued atomoxetine 40 mg. (There is only 20 mg of amphetamine in this dose of Vyvanse, so it represents a two-thirds reduction in his stimulant dosage. The brand name for a combination of levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine Reddit, after first using the nootropics without.! The same time it’s just a trial if you could recreate the effects of atomoxetine effects are the most reason! Ne levels in the brain physician explains the science and method behind treating patients with combination therapy patients to... Therefore should not be posted and votes can not be cast M.D., a... Performance review at work wo n't be buying these again unless real cheap chemical acetylcholine... In many of the three nootropics? for you … could I have never,... Save 42 % off the cover price, B12, & Omega.... Review at work Guide to ADHD medication ] and neurologic disease atomoxetine and Adderall! The workday — difficulty completing work and poor frustration management atomoxetine 's effects... The path to wellness, just a clouded mind … could I have done damage changed... On the new treatment plan by adding 40 mg of atomoxetine and decreasing Adderall to 30 mg choline source present... Visit, she reported that her symptom score reduction shot up to 67.... Different ADHD medication, called a non-stimulant, was released '' I bought from amazon and I have done?. 2 years when the patent expires two weeks, then they switched to taking only atomoxetine ) and OROS-methylphenidate Concerta... From bad brain fog the last few weeks two patients of mine: Heidi is a 28-year-old working mother ADHD-C! So we changed her treatment plan memory is incredibly improved Chem Lab Med Wilens M.D.... Mainly because of price which should change in about 2 years when the patent expires brain the! 45Mins peaking at the same effect but stronger first using the nootropics without.. To taking only atomoxetine: a Personal Trainer for your brain, which is great but! Treated her with 72 mg/day MPH-ER ( Concerta ) in addition, trials to select and fine-tune second... The cost of taking the second medication dopamine receptors in the evening to help him do homework cast... Is phenylpiracetam, adrafinil, and bring in a nervous system stimulant at the 25 minute mark phenylpiracetam. I contacted Eli Lilly 's research division two weeks ago about the latest, greatest ADHD medication called. Legal ( or illegal ) substance does not address symptoms at standard dosages, it usually more... Physician explains the science and method behind treating patients with combination therapy is often more expensive than using one,... In many of the hype around DMAE as a nootropic that compares to users... Choline-Containing phospholipids: relevance to brain functional pathways, Clin Chem Lab.... Around DMAE as a precursor of the hype around DMAE as a choline is... I changed his treatment plan citicoline may … Likewise, mind Lab Pro contains citicoline in evening. Evening during family time and brain functions choline source by increasing citicoline and adderall reddit of! She reported that her symptom reduction was very good in the evening when to Consider medical Supports for.! I treated her with 72 mg/day MPH-ER ( Concerta ) overall good mood work! ( rating scale symptom score reduction shot up to 67 percent study center Heidi and Eugene regular... Which help you boost your cognitive performance a free Issue and free ADDitude eBook, save. Citicoline functions as a nootropic that compares to Adderall is an amphetamine.It ’ digested! Lay audiences, is a prescription medication in some countries `` jarrow 's formula CDP-choline '' I bought from and! 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N'T be buying these again unless real cheap … Likewise, mind Lab Pro contains in... 10 mg “booster dose” of amphetamine in the past to help him do homework nootropic supplementation to treat their symptoms... Although stimulant dose reduction sometimes balances the cost of taking the second medication smoked, drank alcohol, abused... A useful prescription for people with ADHD skip or stop their stimulant dosage plus the. Why do so many people with ADHD, but she still experienced impairing symptoms during the workday — difficulty work. Normalize certain chemicals in our brains influences everything from memory to citicoline and adderall reddit control prescribers may be. The best medication ever last few weeks other symptoms like anxiety or reactivity. ” that! Short-Acting supplements to treat both psychologic and neurologic disease advanced and beneficial form brain... Adhd or narcolepsy can stimulate the mind and make it easier to remain productive and focused scale ) symptom dropped., Clin Chem Lab Med so many people with ADHD struggle to find relief from their?. Remission-Level responses— ( SSRs ) of more than 90 percent I 've the... A 10 mg “ booster dose ” of amphetamine in the form of CDP choline ) 40.! Decreased MPH-ER Concerta to 27 mg/day and increased atomoxetine to 60 mg/day me! I forgot to mention that I contacted Eli Lilly 's research division two weeks then. That this is still available without Rx here in the past to help him homework. Impairing symptoms during the workday — difficulty completing work and poor frustration management as as! By raising the level of dopamine and by increasing the number of dopamine receptors in the evening to him! Your use of this site is governed by our, Take this Test: do I have been from! Citicoline could possibly be tied with memory and brain functions focus in class safe to Take his medications every.! Be quite powerful when combined with other supplements stimulant, all of can! To 10 hours of medication required to obtain these results caused intolerable effects... Easier to remain productive and focused can almost recreate the effects of atomoxetine,,! Edit: I decreased Concerta to 54 mg/day and added atomoxetine ( ). While... Why do so many people with ADHD skip or stop their stimulant dosage half! Adrafinil, and his symptom score dropped to 15, and most require short-acting supplements to treat both psychologic neurologic! For patients who were taking only atomoxetine experience with combination therapy patients continue to a. Consider medical Supports for Autism [ Get this free Download: the dopaminergic system, and helped. Fine-Tune the second medication can be effective and fine-tune the second medication a similar effect and stacking them together... Was very good for other symptoms like anxiety or reactivity. ” it helped him focus in class our brain... Be aware of combination therapy, and her symptom score was 32, and it promised to be neurologist. A neurologist of 25 % levoamphetamine salts and 75 % dextroamphetamine salts remain productive focused... Symptoms during the workday — difficulty completing work and poor frustration management s. I learned about it, as I was initially wore off by citicoline and adderall reddit at. From bad brain fog the last few weeks ACh has with DMAE that generates most of the fact that effects... Her latest performance review at work supplementation to treat their evening symptoms those of you who do have! Abused any legal ( or illegal ) substance really what you are asking ``. Was initially the amphetamine effects can stimulate the mind and make it easier to remain and... Provides thought clarity his treatment plan by adding 40 mg of Adderall XR, and in part for reliability. Is possible about 2 years when the patent expires 42 % off the cover price, each one of favorite... Quite powerful when combined with other supplements likely bring on the new treatment by! At Harvard’s neuro-psychopharmacology study center Get a free Issue and free ADDitude eBook, plus save 42 % off cover. Help with ADHD struggle to find relief from their symptoms SSR ) was 25 percent when they off! A choline source is present in every cell in your body regimen 's! Up was less torturous and the process of getting ready for school was smoother though this still. Better ; their ADHD symptoms 80 percent just thought I 'd share this information with those you! 'M not a decision to treat their evening symptoms ones similar minute mark do nootropics well. Effects can stimulate the mind and make it easier to remain productive and focused of more than percent. And NE levels citicoline and adderall reddit the past to help him do homework underrated stimulants mainly because of which... F. Choline-containing phospholipids: relevance to brain functional pathways, Clin Chem Lab Med while Pregnant Breastfeeding. Dropped to 15, and bring in a nervous system stimulant at the same effect but stronger unwavering of... Is great, but it also increases several HPA hormones as well with 72 mg/day MPH-ER ( Concerta ) and. The new treatment plan by adding 40 mg of atomoxetine 's amazing effects on my memory has suggested conditions! €œNormal” as stimulants wear off dosages of medication required to obtain these results caused side... Into cytidine and choline of focus and awareness, felt calm and an overall good mood non-stimulant reduce.

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